Healing monk, what stats? (Mo/Me) - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Azmodan · Jun 08, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I never said to over heal. And, an elementalist primary still has to use energy wisely. They just don't have to worry as much.

I also never said to forget the primary monk and go with the elementalist. I believe my first post said not to rule it out. It is an option and a viable one at that.

I use both and think that the elementalist primary suits my playing style better.

stumpy · Jun 08, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

if you havent a way to speed up energy regen, you will face issues. I have played both and the prim mon/mes isnt even in the same ballpark. Its in the major leagues. An ele/mo makes for a better back up healer for 2 reasons ... a monk/mesmer echoing an o spell for 102 loses next to no energy. 5 energy at first echoed and regen'd in time for next spell. Secondly a monk/mes has more versitality in a group. If you have a warrior that can blind a foe / follow his targets and drop you spirit of failure (regening large amounts of energy all the time) I have had little success when being a primary healer as E/Mo ... if you think you are better suited ... by all means I wish you luck. But I warn you to take as many of the 5 cost skils as possible. Running breeze, protective spirit (<<<- which you will need), or any other10+ spell ... will chop your energy down much too fast ... and with no regen will utter you useless at some point or another in battle.

Halaku · Jun 08, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I don't want to disagree with Azmodan totally, a bigger energy pool is always nice, just that it doesn't outweigh divine favor for a few reasons.

a) You actually in the long run save energy with divine favor. Not in the one or two casting range, but in the multiple casting range, a divine favor spell say heals someone for a 1/3 of their health, a non-divine favor spell heals someone for a 1/4. in the short run, those points aren't going to matter, in the long run after multiple healings, you are actually casting the spell less often on someone because they are being healed more health.

b) Often its not one person being smacked, its two or three. Now heal party is nice, but it does have a rather high healing rate, and heal area heals everything, bad guys and good. So after casting a heal party, sometimes you need to multiple person cast orison of healing. Simply put a person who is healed more health can go for a bit longer until his next wave of healing. That extra bit longer allows you to cast your orison on someone else, before moving over to the initial person again. Bigger energy pools don't give you more time, just more ability to cast more spells

c) While monk energy pools are rather small, their spells cost rather small amounts to cast. heal party is what, 15 energy, and you get off really 5 healing spells at ones, a net gaint of 10 energy. Orison only costs five energy, and if its to the point you can barely keep up on damage by spamming orison that you can't wait the 5 seconds for the 5 energy to come back, you're in a world of hurt already. Third the energy regain is rather quick to 5 or even ten points.

To the original OP: I have a Mo/Me with healing, smiting/protection (depending if I am soloing or grouping or going against undead) , divine favor, and inspiration magic. inspiration is nice where if you suddenly find yourself out of energy and you NEED just a quick energy boost, you can steal it and go. Give you that same larger energy pool, and divine favor all at once. With the extra benefit that you steal energy from someone else.

Azmodan · Jun 09, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

All good points. But, it seems that someone thinks a monk regens faster. Not true. A monk primary and an Elementalist primary will regen at the same rate. That is unless I'm missing something. I get a regen of 4 on both of them.

theclam · Jun 09, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Spells like Divine Boon, Divine Spirit, Signet of Devotion are another advantage that primary monks have. In addition, spells like Reversal of Fortune become possible replacements for Orison of Healing on your skill bar. Spells like Healing Breeze or Shielding Hands become much more effective, because they heal your target in addition to their effect.

Quote:

Low level healing? With maxed out healing prayers and divine favor, Orison of healing will do 102 hp of healing. Two Orison of healings will do 120 hp of healing. That's more by my count. Now look at Heal Other. 193 hp of healing with monk primary and 302 hp of healing with elementalist primary. Huge difference there.

With Divine Favor, all your spells become much, much more energy efficient. When you add in Signet of Devotion and Divine Boon, you may find that a primary monk actually is much better, even in shorter battles.

Edit: I forgot, only a primary monk can use monk runes.

PrimeHealer · Jun 09, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Divine favor is not a small bonus, I have a skill called divine healing (divine favor att) and it heals the whole party for 210hp, i dont think that is small. For those of you who say el/mo make better healers that is false..divine boon lets you do big heals, and in tombs when you are getting your energy sucked awya, bit heals are better, energy wont matter. If you want to be a good healing monk then you wont put any points in your secondary class. I am mo/mes and I dont think Ive ever used the mes part of me, so pretty much you can be mo/anything cause if youre going healer or protect then you wont need secondary...only advantage of mes as secondary is when it comes time to fight your mirror image then mo/mes can wipe him out in about 10 seconds...other secondaries i do not know. Anyways have fun with your monk =)

alvin · Jun 09, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

IMHO it is the combinations that make primary Monks clearly better healers.

Say I use Heal Party where 3 people are low (many times it is more then this)
Monk: 510 Health (Heal Party+Divine Boon+Divine Favor)*3
Elem: 201 Health (Heal Party)*3

A Monk does not need near as much energy as an Elem to heal, so by the time a Monk runs out an Elem will run out as they had to use twice as much. And when both are out the Monk will be healing for 163 every few seconds while the Elem heals for 60.

And then you combine some smite enchantments and you are dealing some good damage to nearby enemies while you heal.

Halaku · Jun 09, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azmodan

All good points. But, it seems that someone thinks a monk regens faster. Not true. A monk primary and an Elementalist primary will regen at the same rate. That is unless I'm missing something. I get a regen of 4 on both of them.

No, I wasn't saying that at all. Monks and Elementalists regen at the same rate. But to a Elementalist, 5 points of energy gives you one flare to a monk 5 points gives you one Orison of healing.

I'd rather be able to squeeze a bit more healing juice out of the Orison because of the divine favor, then having a large pool, that is totally empty. The difference between a 1/3 and a 1/4 of the healing may just be enough of the energy coming back to 5 before getting to cast it.

Most decent Elemtentalist spells with bonuses or AoE start at the 10 energy range. A monks bread and butter is only 5. Squeeze that extra bit of healing in there, and you have the time to regen that 5 points.

alvin · Jun 09, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I have a question on divine boon. When I have it on and I have only 5 energy Orison still works. It seems that you only lose 2 energy if you got 2 extra to lose. So I never turn off Boon as I am getting the extra health and if i am low on energy i dont seem to lose the 2 extra energy anyways.

stumpy · Jun 09, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Monks and Elementalist do regen at the same rate ... and both have ways off effectively knocking down spell costs ... the only thing your weighing in the end is the divine vs. energy storage.

so its your call but imo divine will help more ... but thats just from my proven practice, and prefernce .. I had an Elem/Mo all the way to the Arch and cut her loose because of the simple fact (it wasn't enough ... I would and could run out fast because I would have to cast more spells in the end anyways ... so energy pool was now not on my priority list)

Now I have Monk primary and I findit alot easier ... if your gonna play a healer role (juice up your healing and divine) and you will be fine. Add a mesmer secondary and now you can effectively siphon energy off no matterwhat your group build is.

Sleazy_D · Jun 10, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I'm just wondering why there are a bunch of threads that come down to whether E/Mo can be competative with Mo/any... The question was about Mo/Me builds.

As for the E/Mo question, ya, I've seen them pump out the heals, and keep doing it. There is no question that the energy well runs deep, and it is fine for healing a party that is taking some mid-level combat damage. They will have a hard time handling spike damage, but what can you do?

Oh, and if my monk really needs to pump out the major heals the combo (Mo/Me) that rules is:

Arcane echo
Orison of Healing
Divine Boon
And a buddy necromancer casting Blood is Power on you.

2 Orison of healings, all ready to go (for 20 seconds), +40-something Devine favor 60-something from Divine Boon, and Orison's 60 health. Every second.

Ketendra · Jun 10, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

E/Mo = can heal longer but heals little bits at a time
Mo/E = cant heal as long but heals much bigger bits at a time

they end out about the same in the end - its just that monks do it faster
personally I would do the Mo/anything - faster healing is better than little heals

Jun 09, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31	#27
alvin Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005	IMHO it is the combinations that make primary Monks clearly better healers. Say I use Heal Party where 3 people are low (many times it is more then this) Monk: 510 Health (Heal Party+Divine Boon+Divine Favor)3 Elem: 201 Health (Heal Party)3 A Monk does not need near as much energy as an Elem to heal, so by the time a Monk runs out an Elem will run out as they had to use twice as much. And when both are out the Monk will be healing for 163 every few seconds while the Elem heals for 60. And then you combine some smite enchantments and you are dealing some good damage to nearby enemies while you heal. Last edited by alvin; Jun 09, 2005 at 07:06 PM // 19:06..

Jun 08, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27	#21
Azmodan Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	I never said to over heal. And, an elementalist primary still has to use energy wisely. They just don't have to worry as much. I also never said to forget the primary monk and go with the elementalist. I believe my first post said not to rule it out. It is an option and a viable one at that. I use both and think that the elementalist primary suits my playing style better.

Jun 08, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50	#22
stumpy Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canucklehead BC, Canada Guild: Advanced Necro Undead Society	if you havent a way to speed up energy regen, you will face issues. I have played both and the prim mon/mes isnt even in the same ballpark. Its in the major leagues. An ele/mo makes for a better back up healer for 2 reasons ... a monk/mesmer echoing an o spell for 102 loses next to no energy. 5 energy at first echoed and regen'd in time for next spell. Secondly a monk/mes has more versitality in a group. If you have a warrior that can blind a foe / follow his targets and drop you spirit of failure (regening large amounts of energy all the time) I have had little success when being a primary healer as E/Mo ... if you think you are better suited ... by all means I wish you luck. But I warn you to take as many of the 5 cost skils as possible. Running breeze, protective spirit (<<<- which you will need), or any other10+ spell ... will chop your energy down much too fast ... and with no regen will utter you useless at some point or another in battle.

Jun 08, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08	#23
Halaku Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005	I don't want to disagree with Azmodan totally, a bigger energy pool is always nice, just that it doesn't outweigh divine favor for a few reasons. a) You actually in the long run save energy with divine favor. Not in the one or two casting range, but in the multiple casting range, a divine favor spell say heals someone for a 1/3 of their health, a non-divine favor spell heals someone for a 1/4. in the short run, those points aren't going to matter, in the long run after multiple healings, you are actually casting the spell less often on someone because they are being healed more health. b) Often its not one person being smacked, its two or three. Now heal party is nice, but it does have a rather high healing rate, and heal area heals everything, bad guys and good. So after casting a heal party, sometimes you need to multiple person cast orison of healing. Simply put a person who is healed more health can go for a bit longer until his next wave of healing. That extra bit longer allows you to cast your orison on someone else, before moving over to the initial person again. Bigger energy pools don't give you more time, just more ability to cast more spells c) While monk energy pools are rather small, their spells cost rather small amounts to cast. heal party is what, 15 energy, and you get off really 5 healing spells at ones, a net gaint of 10 energy. Orison only costs five energy, and if its to the point you can barely keep up on damage by spamming orison that you can't wait the 5 seconds for the 5 energy to come back, you're in a world of hurt already. Third the energy regain is rather quick to 5 or even ten points. To the original OP: I have a Mo/Me with healing, smiting/protection (depending if I am soloing or grouping or going against undead) , divine favor, and inspiration magic. inspiration is nice where if you suddenly find yourself out of energy and you NEED just a quick energy boost, you can steal it and go. Give you that same larger energy pool, and divine favor all at once. With the extra benefit that you steal energy from someone else.

Jun 09, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16	#24
Azmodan Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	All good points. But, it seems that someone thinks a monk regens faster. Not true. A monk primary and an Elementalist primary will regen at the same rate. That is unless I'm missing something. I get a regen of 4 on both of them.

Jun 09, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41	#26
PrimeHealer Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	Divine favor is not a small bonus, I have a skill called divine healing (divine favor att) and it heals the whole party for 210hp, i dont think that is small. For those of you who say el/mo make better healers that is false..divine boon lets you do big heals, and in tombs when you are getting your energy sucked awya, bit heals are better, energy wont matter. If you want to be a good healing monk then you wont put any points in your secondary class. I am mo/mes and I dont think Ive ever used the mes part of me, so pretty much you can be mo/anything cause if youre going healer or protect then you wont need secondary...only advantage of mes as secondary is when it comes time to fight your mirror image then mo/mes can wipe him out in about 10 seconds...other secondaries i do not know. Anyways have fun with your monk =)

Jun 09, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51	#29
alvin Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2005	I have a question on divine boon. When I have it on and I have only 5 energy Orison still works. It seems that you only lose 2 energy if you got 2 extra to lose. So I never turn off Boon as I am getting the extra health and if i am low on energy i dont seem to lose the 2 extra energy anyways.

Jun 09, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08	#30
stumpy Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canucklehead BC, Canada Guild: Advanced Necro Undead Society	Monks and Elementalist do regen at the same rate ... and both have ways off effectively knocking down spell costs ... the only thing your weighing in the end is the divine vs. energy storage. so its your call but imo divine will help more ... but thats just from my proven practice, and prefernce .. I had an Elem/Mo all the way to the Arch and cut her loose because of the simple fact (it wasn't enough ... I would and could run out fast because I would have to cast more spells in the end anyways ... so energy pool was now not on my priority list) Now I have Monk primary and I findit alot easier ... if your gonna play a healer role (juice up your healing and divine) and you will be fine. Add a mesmer secondary and now you can effectively siphon energy off no matterwhat your group build is.

Jun 10, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11	#31
Sleazy_D Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Central Massachusetts Guild: Legion of Gweep Profession: Mo/Me	I'm just wondering why there are a bunch of threads that come down to whether E/Mo can be competative with Mo/any... The question was about Mo/Me builds. As for the E/Mo question, ya, I've seen them pump out the heals, and keep doing it. There is no question that the energy well runs deep, and it is fine for healing a party that is taking some mid-level combat damage. They will have a hard time handling spike damage, but what can you do? Oh, and if my monk really needs to pump out the major heals the combo (Mo/Me) that rules is: Arcane echo Orison of Healing Divine Boon And a buddy necromancer casting Blood is Power on you. 2 Orison of healings, all ready to go (for 20 seconds), +40-something Devine favor 60-something from Divine Boon, and Orison's 60 health. Every second.

Jun 10, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32	#32
Ketendra Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York Guild: JackKnife Brigade Profession: E/Mo	E/Mo = can heal longer but heals little bits at a time Mo/E = cant heal as long but heals much bigger bits at a time they end out about the same in the end - its just that monks do it faster personally I would do the Mo/anything - faster healing is better than little heals